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In October, KAORI Nusantara talked with producer Yolanda Sugiri and animator Dwi Sandhy Kuswaya from the Indonesian animation studio Enspire Studio. As an animation studio, Enspire was involved in the production of Girls Band Cry, the Japanese anime series produced by Toei Animation.
For this occasion, both Yolanda and Sandhy shared their experience working on the Girls Band Cry series, which uses 3DCG for the animation. Check our interview here!
Would you please introduce yourselves and Enspire Studio to our readers?
Yolanda (Y): My name is Yolanda Sugiri, but you can call me Yolanda. I’m currently a producer at Enspire Studio, which was established in 2016. Enspire mainly works on 3DCG animation. However, we also have several experiences in post-production visual effects.
Sandy (S): Hello, I’m Dwi Sandhy Kuswaya, and I usually go by Sandhy. I have worked in Enspire Studio since 2015, so it’s been a long time. I’m currently working as an animator under Enspire, and I was also involved in the production of Girls Band Cry.
How did Enspire Studio first receive the opportunity to collaborate with Toei Animation for Girls Band Cry?
Y: It was all thanks to our CEO, Mr. Christian Purnama. He has a broad network of connections in Japan. Through him, we built relationships with several major studios for animation and game projects.
I first noticed the contribution of Indonesian artists in Girls Band Cry when I looked through the credits in each episode. I saw that Enspire Studio staff were credited as animators in the anime. Can you share the specific works Enspire Studio did throughout the production process?
Y: To lay down the general pipeline of the workflow, usually western and South Korean animation studios start their process by creating models for 3D assets. The next step is to make layouts for the animation, and the post-production phase afterwards includes the process of adding lighting, effects, and other details.
Japanese studios, however, have a more intricate process with additional steps. The animation would have to go through three main production stages. First is the static layouts, then the primary animation, where major movements like body gestures and facial expressions are fully animated. Lastly, the second animation stage, where we animate additional movements to detailed parts like hair and clothes. The extra steps could be overwhelming.
S: I also would love to add the experiences I learned from the Girls Band Cry production. We already have advanced technologies to produce 3D animation, with an abundance of tools provided to animate natural and realistic movements in 3D. Despite that, Girls Band Cry aims to have a ‘2D look’, therefore a realistic 3D animation would look weird and not suitable for the anime.
To achieve this look, we had to work on everything manually. For example, when we wanted to animate the clothes or hair of a character fluttering in the wind, we were required to work on the animation frame by frame to simulate the feel of a hand-drawn animation.
What are the challenges in producing 3D animation, especially in a project like Girls Band Cry?
Y: Maybe it’s getting used to the workflow of a Japanese animation studio. Our team was more accustomed to Western and South Korean productions. Meanwhile, under Toei Animation’s supervision, we were given feedback on our works using terms that usually used in the Japanese industry. So, I had to translate them first for our team in Enspire. Toei also paid extra attention to details in the animation, like that one time when the model for the character’s hair and body were poorly overlapped. Toei noticed this detail and asked for a revision, which surprised us because we didn’t think it was visible. Our team really had to focus on the details while working on Girls Band Cry.
S: What Yola said is true. There was also a time when a character was shown from quite a distance in a long shot. Toei noticed that some parts of the character’s model were poorly overlapped, despite the character’s being located far away from the camera. From this experience, I learned that they really sought to maintain the quality of their animations.
Enspire Studio has also contributed to several projects outside the Japanese anime industry. Can you elaborate on your previous experiences in this field? What are the differences you noticed compared to your involvement in Japanese anime production?
Y: Before I even joined the studio, Enspire had worked on a South Korean 3D animated series for kids. Maybe you’ve heard of Dino Powers, we produced hundreds of episodes for the series. Sandhy also handled similar projects many times before, maybe you can share the differences?
S: Oh, the contrast between the production workflows is huge, though we also can’t make a generalization that all South Korean productions are produced similarly. When working on a series like Dino Powers, they usually don’t want too many steps or revisions when producing a series or an episode. The challenges in South Korean productions often lie in the very hands-off attitude of the directors. They usually already have a vision of what they want to achieve, but they can’t describe it visually. In this case, they just tell us to create the animation first, despite the vague direction, yet after we finish the process they’d tell us that it doesn’t convey their visions.
Of course, not all South Korean projects were like that. We also contributed to the South Korean series iN:APP. It was quite a fun project for me, despite I was only participating in 2 episodes because we did everything from scratch: modelling, rigging, lighting, and compositing. The director themself was also present in our studio, and I felt comfortable when working on this project, so you can’t say all South Korean anime production is like my experience with Dino Powers. I’m just recounting my general exposure to the industry.
Based on my observation, directors of Japanese 2D animation already have their own ‘targets’ for the end result of a scene, so the animators only need to execute based on what the director aims for. Whenever corrections are needed, the director would also give constructive feedback.
S: I agree. I happened to see the primary animation files made by the Toei Animation team in Japan by chance, and I was shocked to discover that the files we received had already gone through 17-18 revisions. From my experience with previous clients, the revisions only go as far as five times, never more. I can’t imagine what it’s like to be the animation team that had to go through that many corrections (laughs).
Y: We had to wait for the primary animation from the Japanese team before we could work on the secondary animation. So before we get the files, we sometimes would ask the Japanese team. “When are the shots going to come?” and they usually replied, “Please wait! We’re still correcting them!”. When we finally received the long-awaited shots, turns out it’s already the eighteenth revised version, so we all suddenly felt guilty (laughs).
S: Sometimes, when we look through the history of the files, there were lots of corrections merely on something like the thigh of the character looking too big or too small.
Y: If you’re an anime fan, you’d probably know this already, but the director of Girls Band Cry, Kazuo Sakai, also directed Love Live!! Sunshine, so he’s very meticulous regarding details of the female body poses and postures. Even if the character models are done and their poses already set, Girls Band Cry strives to achieve a look that resembles 2D animation, so our efforts often miss out on the desired result. We’re currently involved in another project from a Japanese studio set to release next year, and we’re also working hard on it.
There’s this stigmatized view that considers 3D animation ugly and looks weird compared to hand-drawn animation commonly produced in the Japanese animation industry. What does the Enspire Studio team think of this opinion? What do you think sets Girls Band Cry apart from other 3D anime that makes it well-received by anime fans worldwide?
S: I’m not deeply familiar with the anime industry. To be honest, I learned a lot about it during this project. So, I’ll let Yola answer this one (laughs).
Y: To me, Girls Band Cry is doing well because the goal is to make the animation not look 3D in the first place. Well, if you ask us as a 3D animation team, it’s funny that we worked hard for this 3D animation even though the ultimate goal is to ‘erase’ the 3D visuals (laughs). I talked with the person responsible for the modelling in Girls Band Cry, and they said Toei have always wanted an anime-style result, from the visuals to the movements of the characters.
From my observation, I think that these ‘ugly’ 3D anime usually do not utilize the 3D aspects well. It’s because they want to replicate 2D anime so much that they end up looking weird.
Y: Yes, I think perhaps those 3D anime are lacking balance, or maybe there are modelling issues from assets used in the animation where they don’t use the anime-style shader. There are also plenty of rigging limitations in production. In Girls Band Cry, there are moments when the facial expressions are very comical and change their forms a lot, and we worked super hard on them. The modelling and rigging team from Toei definitely also did their best so they could animate the models that way.
There are also manual hand-drawn retouches during the compositing stage, which were done frame by frame in Girls Band Cry. This is usually not done in other 3D animations, and I don’t think not all 3D animations can afford the resources for that, so Toei has an advantage in budget and time for production.
S: In my opinion, Toei utilizes 3D animation to achieve the result they want for Girls Band Cry. They still want the anime to look 2D, but use techniques that can only be done by 3D animation. For example, scenes where the characters are performing on stage were animated using motion capture, but the shading technique used by Toei makes the visuals blend well and don’t look weird. When the characters are talking with each other or spacing out, they are completely still without any additional movements. I see this as a good decision because if the character moves too much, the 2D anime illusion will be ruined. You can see the result already, both animation techniques can be combined stylistically while also maintaining the traditional aesthetics of an anime.
The founder of Enspire Studio, Andre Surya, also established the Enspire School of Digital Art (ESDA). How does ESDA contribute as a starting point for those aspiring in the 3D animation field, and how do ESDA and Enspire Studio cooperate?
Y: Enspire Studio and ESDA operate under different management. So the studio still needs to test ESDA alumni who want to work with us. ESDA now focuses on introductory courses for children rather than professional training, because 3D animation skills are not something that can be fully taught in 3 years. Thus, ESDA opted to provide introductory courses for children to learn and get used to 3D arts at an early age.
There used to be a professional course in ESDA. Sandhy and some of our team members graduated from there. So to answer the question, Enspire Studio and ESDA don’t have that much of a direct cooperation. You’re not guaranteed to immediately get accepted into Enspire just because you graduated from ESDA.
Thank you so much for clarifying. Lastly, do you have any words for the readers who want to be 3D animators and work on projects like Girls Band Cry in the future?
S: To everyone who just started learning animation or planning to step into the industry, I want you to not give up. You need to look into a lot of references as an artist. Since long ago, every time I watch a film or an animated work, I only have one word in my mind: “Why?”. Why does this work look like that? I would search for what the production team did in the creation process, the techniques they applied, and everything else I can use as a reference. With the technology we have now, I’m sure you can easily look for references every day. I think it’s important to develop your personal artistic sense alongside your skills, so you can apply them to enter the industry and work on animation projects.
Y: For the current generation, starting as a freelancer might be a better option if you value creative freedom. While working in a studio provides stability, it comes with limitations on project choices. When you work in a studio, they obviously have other priorities, so there are times when you are assigned jobs that you like and there are times you are held back from doing things you want. For example, when we animated a music video for hololive ID, our team member who loves hololive didn’t manage to get assigned to the project (laughs). There are times when we can’t choose our work, and I want you to not be selfish about that.
Thank you so much for your advice and the insights you both shared in this interview, Sandhy and Yola. We wish Enspire Studio success and smooth progress in your upcoming projects!
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