Interview with Animator Ida Bagus Yoga (guzzu): “I Won’t Recommend Indonesian Animator to Work in Japan”

According to you, what aspects that determine whether or not an animation is good?

Good animation is usually seen from how much the animator’s drawings animate the scene smoothly and consistently.

Does this mean the more frames the better? Because as far as I know, there are some animators like Yoshinori Kanada or Hiroyuki Imaishi who intentionally made their animation look choppy?

Hiroyuki Imaishi, Yoshinori Kanada, and animators who have the characteristic “choppy animation,” for me, are exceptions. This is because their animations have the characteristics of cartoonish movement but still feel dynamic like Disney’s old school western styles. Their animations often have exaggerated or excessive facial expressions, but Imaishi/Kanada make them with more efficient frames. I am sure animators like Imaishi often experiment with their “choppy” animation style. If they are criticized that their animation is limited or not smooth, I think it’s just because of different opinions and tastes.

One of Imaishi’s cut in FLCL Episode 5 (©Gainax/KGI)

Anime itself is usually known for limited frames. One of the reasons why their animation is limited maybe because it can help to speed up the work in very short production time. In the current generation of anime, there are many studios that make animation that is not as smooth as in the past. There used to be animation industry in Japan that was inspired by the western style of animation, for example like Studio Ghibli where their characters rarely stay in place and are generally animated well. In addition, there are also films such as Kobu Tori (1929), Ugokie Korino Tatehiki (1933), The Tale of the White Serpent (1958), and many more inspired by Disney and western animation. You can search for the history of Japanese animation on the internet that is already widely accessible.

The change of Japanese animation style happened in the era when Tetsuwan Atom (Astro Boy) was produced, where the anime characters were quite typical like today’s anime, although there are still some western influences. Animators like Yoh Yoshinari and Takafumi Hori also learned a lot from western animation style. Takafumi Hori has even contributed to the Steven Universe cartoon and there are chances of him to contribute much more. I prefer animators like Yoh Yoshinari, Kou Yoshinari (his brother) and Takafumi Hori rather than the choppy animation styles like Hiroyuki Imaishi and Yoshinori Kanada.

Indeed, the animation in Japan looks “choppy” compared to animation in other countries and it is a problem that cannot be avoided because, in Japan, they have to air every week. It’s like they treat animation like Indonesian soap operas. The story that is recycled, cheap animation, but easy to digest with an ordinary audience. Animators like me and my sakuga friends are not very happy and disappointed with these inhumane deadlines. We are more respectful of industries that think more about quality and give us, creators, time to make the art, rather than being treated like bland fast food.

Ah, the issue of the problematic schedule of anime production is indeed a hot topic now. Some people in the sakuga community have been long reminding that anime fans should be more aware with this kind of issue. It’s nice to get insight from people who have worked directly in this industry.

Yeah right, that’s why I don’t really like contributing to anime lately. I prefer cooperating with the western animation industry, not because I am tempted by a lot of money, but because me and other animators feel our time is more appreciated, and we can make better animation as great as possible.

Why don’t Japanese people complain about money problems and tight deadlines? It is because their mindset that has formed since childhood. Besides that, they also don’t have many connections with westerners, even though both sides want to make connections and collaborate to create anime/cartoons together, to build the business, and so on. Studio Trigger recently also got connection with the guys from Crunchyroll, and they were given the privilege to introduce their anime directly in the USA. The relation of the animation industry between the west and east has now become more friendly, so maybe in two to five years, more and more connections are established between these industries.

Me and other freelance animator friends can also benefit, I hope that there will be more animators from smaller entertainment industries like Indonesia that can work in the overseas animation industry. It doesn’t matter if one doesn’t contribute to their own country’s animation industry because, in my opinion, success is not restricted by patriotism, nationalism, or religion.

When working in the anime industry itself, is there a story that you can share about the tightness of the anime production itself? Maybe you have to meet a tight deadline or any similar story?

At the time of Boruto’s production, we were only given two weeks and five days to animate the fighting scene in episode 65. Weilin Zhang and I were given scenes of one minute each (55 seconds ~ 60 seconds), we had to work on about 1300+ frames. Weilin and I were given the most crucial scenes in the episode, while my other animator friends were only given a few seconds (3 ~ 10 seconds). In such a short deadline, we must be able to complete all animations from characters, effects, explosions, background layouts, cameras, to cleaning up.

My situation was very tight at that time because back then, I was working on Castlevania and Boruto at the same time, with deadlines that were also overlapping. Actually, my works in both of these projects had not released my full potential yet. There are several scenes in Castlevania where my quality was not optimal due to the overlapping deadlines, except for the explosion scene and when Trevor fights the Monster on the fallen bridge because I was given more time to animate the scene. In addition to the two projects, there are several other anime projects that made me quit in the middle of production because I was overworked, rarely had time to sleep, and stressed about how small the salary is, which in the end made me decide to stop contributing to the Japanese industry.

Because we just discussed the negative side behind the production of anime, There is something I want to ask: is there anything positive that you get while working in this industry?

Not much, but first, I learned to understand the workflow of the industry in Japan. Second, I learned different styles. Third, I learned that the industry in the west (United States or Europe) is usually interested in animators who can work on Japanese “sakuga” styles, as many in the west are interested in the dynamic choreography and Japanese action works. “Sakuga” style is now increasingly being looked at by western industry. But I really don’t recommend people to try hard to contribute to Japanese anime.

I suggest that if you really want to work on anime, you can contribute there once or twice a year, and hope that your work can exceed everyone’s expectations. It’s not an easy thing, but I’m sure you will then get job offers with more humane job condition. Don’t be a full-time animator in Japan, look for freelance jobs in the western industry, find enough pocket money so you don’t get stressed. It doesn’t mean I really forbid you to work full-time there (in Japan). But if you really want to, you may need to have a strong, or maybe masochistic, soul. LOL.

What should animators and people in the animation industry do to solve the problem of overwork?

It depends on the higher-ups, not the animators. A leader should think about the condition of the animators and not treat them just as money-printing machine. Many of higher-ups do not care about the quality of the animators there, what they really need is that the animation can move a little and only the mouth is animated. Moreover, they pay more to the voice actors than the animators who bring the animation to life.

What are the prospects for Indonesian animators to work abroad? What risks would they face? What does guzzu think about the current sakuga community? KAORI Nusantara’s interview with guzzu continues on the third page.